The first modular engines installed in full-size Fords used the reliable but now aging EEC-IV computer from the 1980s. the 3v computer is just a computer it doesnt know if the engine has 2v 3v or 4v it just calculates the air and fuel. but livernoise will be making me a set of cams and springs for it soon. While this is a simple system used in some race cars, it is not recommended for most street and street/strip applications, as it doesnt take into consideration any exhaust gas information or emission information. Dazed in Conufsed V8 is working on a 3v swap last I heard. In this video we start the 6R80 swap on my 08 Mustang GT! That means that the suspension geometry and ride quality is designed for this truck. See if they can dyno the car afterwards so we can see what kind of numbers you get. The gas pedal is an electronic device that sends signals to the throttle motor via wiring. i appreciatte any advice or sugestions, dont know thats a werid but unique swap the the 6,2 is a 3v engine ? This manual-swapped Ford Crown Victoria was built for the sole purpose of commuting everyday! She could easily make a killer sleeper car. Written by Dave Stribling and Posted with Permission of CarTechBooks. Whether you prefer a physical book. The speed density system calculations are based on engine speed, manifold pressure, exhaust output, and a Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor to measure the pressure in the intake manifold and then calculate the fuel required. A forum community dedicated to all Ford Mustang owners and enthusiasts. I know that's a rough estimate for drivetrain power loss percentage, but short of dynoing the engine itself before installation it's as close as we can get to figuring out the crank number AFAIK. Wiring the system is the most difficult part of any swap, and with all the changes Ford has made over the years and the upgrades to computers, it is a source of apprehension to most builders. Tuning an engine is a science, and most companies who sell the programmers work with trained tuners to maximize the performance and efficiency of the engine. The first is a basic low-cost code reader, the second is scan tools and data loggers, and the third is programmers. 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Unlike other makes where the basic scheme doesnt change much, the Ford system has changed considerably over the years and has had at least four base configurations as of this writing. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Supposedly Romeo to Romeo and Windsor to Windsor 2v 3v and 4v heads are interchangeable with blocks. This servo can advance or retard the intake camshaft to increase the performance of the engine. Just like stangaddiction said itll raise your compression ratio a lot and that high I wouldnt trust using a 93 octane tune with it being safe. The 4.6 3V was dropped in 2010, but the 5.4 3V continued in some trucks until 2015. New stock 1967 fuel tanks are being fabricated out of stainless steel, and this was the choice for modifications for the 2003 dual fuel pump. I was just going to have a cam sprocket machined for the driver cam with the pip on it, a crank trigger wheel for the front and just use the engine harness PCM and sensors from the 4.6l that originally came in the car. My boys are getting to the driving age and I think it would be a great project to get them involved with and get their minds working. The 20032004 Cobra Terminator engines continue to be a popular swap engine because they are easy to modify and produce a lot of power. (with pics of course). . so if they are canceling the variable timing it will make less than 300 hp, the variable timing is the key to make 300 hp . Out the factory door, the P71 Interceptor Crown Vic managed 239 horsepower out of its 4.6 liter V8. A Lokar throttle cable is used along with an accelerator pedal from a 1970 Mustang to run the throttle body. The difference between Explorer and Mustang 3V is the intake and throttle body. Of course my fantasy build is a V10/Fox-bodied Mustang with a manual trans (T56?). TL;DR: He has a 2v. In a nut shell, not all 4.6L engines are built the same. 90% of the 4V's airflow in a narrower package. Others can get the connectors, and some use a central junction point that permits remote mounting, but it is big and bulky. Paul's high performance swapped a 6.2l in a 10 mustang. The factory system allows you to use and control components such as automatic transmissions, ABS units, and fuel systems without extra controllers. The first is a basic low-cost code reader, the second is scan tools and data loggers, and the third is programmers. They are more torquey because of their long stroke. The independent rear suspension is already equipped to run the ABS. It is a must for anyone using the original Ford harnesses in a project, and its a good idea to have one even if you are planning on using an aftermarket harness. The Bosch base unit fits nicely on the 1967 strut rod mount, and sensor rings will be added to the front Mustang II spindles. i started a project my 03 crown vic i paid 1100 bucks for it at an auction. If you bypass items such as the EVAP or EGR for off-road use, or you are converting a mechanical fuel pressure regulator, you need to let the PCM know what you are changing. usually net a 15% gain for a full point of compression bump so we are even farther in hp gain than we expected with the 3v heads swap. In addition, you dont have to verify the sensors that are installed on the engine, as some aftermarket systems require a change to generic sensors. It would also open you up to a newer style intake manifold. While there the factory 4.6 L 2v Read More 1996 Crown Victoria with a 460 ci V8 Update 3 October 22, 2021 Crown Victoria Now I want to put a V10 in for fun. I think the cams are the same but I could be wrong and yea its not plug and play but its an easy swap. This port allows you to read error codes, look at logged and live data, and change computer programs. That's the cam phasing + 6 speed auto. The biggest challenges to installing the engine are the width and height. i bought a 6.2l short block and heads for it. The other thing regardless of the swap is the wiring harness. The factory air-intake tubing was used and mounted to the old battery area. The sensor on the left is from a mid-1980s 5.0 Mustang, but the one on the right is from a GM application and is used on most aftermarket speed density systems. With the 4.6L swap you are going to need to make motor mounts or purchase some aftermarket ones, get a high pressure fuel pump and all the plumbing that goes with it, an external transmission cooler as the one in the radiator is not good enough for the AODE/4R70W/4R75W family of transmission, a remote oil filter base as the current filter will they actually have forum users that don't talk **** and are friendly to people. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! The newer the computer and the greater the number of sensors, the more information there is available. These computers are all mass airflow design, so they must use an airflow meter to measure the amount of air going into the engine. The main advantage of the 3V is indeed the cam phaser so locking it out would really offset any real potential. Be prepared to modify the transmission tunnel in the car. why not use the computer and harness from the 6.2? The 4R100 is quite a bit larger than the 4R70W, but a little smaller than the TorqShift. Also, the intake manifold on a 5.4 is a lot taller than the 4.6 manifold, and your hood won't close. Eaton M112, 3.4 Billetflow upper, Accufab SBTB + Plenum, Tremec T-56 Magnum, 4.10's, Stainless Works LT's, 2.5" Exhaust W/ Borla Stingers, FX-R projectors, Addco F/R swaybars, Stainless Works LT's, Stainless Works catback, Mo's tune, JLT, Evolve CAI + AlphaN Tune, Dinan strut bar + rear swaybar, Stoptech ST40BBK, UUC Shifter, http://www.modulardepot.com/articlesp.php?aid=52, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.5.9. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The Crown Victoria Coyote is for sale on Craigslist with an asking price of $9,000. If you are looking at Vic engines get anything after 2001. I'm going to look into it a little further, I'm more surprised than anything else that nobody else has done it. Currently, the best choice for operating the Coyote engine and later engines with VCT is the Ford Performance Control Pack. As far as track width, it's over 3" narrower than the Crown Vic front end as well. VCT allows the computer to advance or retard the camshaft timing via a control solenoid. The tunnel is just large enough for a 4R70W transmission that normally comes in the car. I would imagine with tuning it has to be good for some low buck HP. (Photo Courtesy SCT). This pro street 1967 coupe is being fitted with the still popular 20032004 Cobra Terminator engine. Ford changes the circuit pathways through the harnesses frequently. HPTs VCM Scanner is a computerbased diagnostic tool that allows you to download and analyze real-time data, allows you to chart information to look for intermittent problems, and also allows tests to be run on individual components and systems. Nuremberg (Nrnberg), Bavaria's second-largest city and the unofficial capital of Franconia, is an energetic place where the nightlife is intense and the beer is as dark as coffee. i will keep factory compression ratio. I am just wondering if it makes any noticeable difference. Go with the manual gearbox. Most error codes are for emissions systems, but there are codes assigned to manufacturer specific problems. A 5.4 should bolt in right in place of the 4.6. i bought a 6.2l short block and heads for it. Filed Under: Ford Engine Swaps, Ford Modular Engines, Ford Mustang, Ford Tech Tips, Ford Torino, 2023 DiY Ford. see I don't know how the PCM works or how it turns on at first that's why I just asked about using a 3V control pack from ford. The Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) has evolved over the years and the newest system is now the biggest hurdle to overcome in an engine swap. . 4v? Archive - The early 2005 2006 engines require a modification to the wiring harness to work with the control pack. For this, you need a scan tool, which costs more than the error code readers, depending on what level of features your scan tool possesses. They're very similar to Mark or cobra pistons, but slightly more dish. Those cars have stability control, PATS, all sorts of other OBDII sensors and whatnot. A mass airflow system features a meter mounted ahead of the throttle plate that measures the amount of air going into the engine. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. If you get a 3V computer, you can run the VVT and shut up these nay-sayers. He currently owns a '95 Corvette, '76 Cadillac Seville, '99 LS1 Trans Am and big old Ford Van. Next in the firing order is Cylinder #3, located on the same side. May not be what your going for but the videos should give you some. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The computer can tell you more about what is happening with the engine than any external device. This customer opted for a Mustang II front-end conversion from Rod and Custom Motorsports. Now the pistons are different and I believe won't allow the use of 2v heads. Mass air systems do not require many fuel curve tables and can calculate the most efficient ratio on the fly. From 0cc to -20cc dish piston, if your cams (aftermarket) have too much duration/lift is when notche. This police car unit is very big and difficult to use in a swap due to the speedometer calibration system. Ford is generally very good at keeping wire colors consistent, but is notorious for changing the location of signals in a connector and changing the sex of the connector, even within model years. Here is a brief overview of the different types of computers and how they work. 2023 Power Automedia. Team321 offers this setup in two packages: the base package includes the crossmember, upper control arms, all mounting hardware and sway bar; the complete suspension package adds the lower control arms, steering rack, coilovers, knuckles, steering tie rods and sway bar links. To get the pro/street look the factory fender flares have been widened 112 inches in the back and 1 inch in the front. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.5.9. the factory harness lays right on top of the motor. There are three levels of communication with the PCM, and these three levels require three different tools. There are so many conflicting opinions Do I get the 5.4 2v? The shock towers were removed to make room for the wide DOHC heads. Alpha N computer controls are a simple form of fuel injection. You will need motor mount adapters as well to run the 3V block. https://www.patreon.com/nathansgarage?fan_landing=trueOk.the orange one was an F250 but it definitely is more F100-like now. With the introduction of the EEC-V system in 1994 came the OBDII (On-Board Diagnostic II) set of standardized error codes, which are still in use as of this writing. Throttle Bodies. Error codes and data logging help determine what components may need attention, and most systems now work over Wi-Fi. You can copy and paste this link to share: https://www.diyford.com/swapping-ford-modular-engines-wiring-guide/. i started a project my 03 crown vic i paid 1100 bucks for it at an auction. But I just mentioned that 3V uses a different intake, of which several high-performance models exist. 9. so if they are canceling the variable timing it will make less than 300 hp, the variable timing is the key to make 300 hp . Please post pics, because I for one would love to have a V10 powered car someday. You can just machine an adapter plate to use a standard modular cable-actuated dual bore throttle body (ie Cobra/Mach/MM) instead for pre 05 panthers, and fab a small bracket to mount the cables. We also offer complete wiring systems for the 2005 to 2009 Mustang GT 3-valve 4.6 engine and manual transmission.They have an automatic version as well. 14.46 @ 95.59 / 14.50 @ 95.91 tuned by Darrin at BC Automotive. Here are some of the bigger hurdles to consider if using a Ford wiring harness and computer. All rights reserved. The following are brief synopses of the Ford computer systems: The EEC-IV computer was installed on the earliest modular engines in full-size Ford cars. Advertising - or a rotary out of an RX7.. Seems like alot less hassle. I just re read the OP post and he is actually only using a 3V block , nothing has to do with the heads or VCT as the stock 2v heads are going back. Romeo, Windsor, Teksid, WAP, Triton & Intech - What's In A Name? Manage Preferences - SCTs Eliminator Switch Chip is a plug-in device that can store up to five custom programs on one chip. Nuremberg. Mosley tribes Lyndel . Insight towards what to expect 3 Dimitrov67 3 yr. ago thanks man i'll take a look at it OlYeller01 3 yr. ago The major advantage is vct and Im not sure if its worth it. Thanks to the shared 34-inch framerail spacing, the Crown Vic assembly is easily adapted to the 1967 Ford F-100 . In 2005 Ford introduced the throttle-by-wire system that actuated the throttle plate using an electric motor rather than a traditional cable. Plus he's saying your dynamic compression ratio will be changed to the point where you probably wont be able to use your stock cams but someone else can explain that better than I could. The location of components can be a disadvantage and often an obstacle with the factory system. Wouldn't it be possible to tap into the ECU and make it functional? In the late 1990s Ford introduced the returnless fuel system that eliminated the mechanical fuel pressure regulator and fuel return line used since the 1980s. Easy?!?!?! harness all at once. If you get 360 at the wheels, then yeah you're probably close-ish to 450 at the crank, as 360 is 80% of 450. Will it fit? That is the main reason I was wondering about the feasability of the SOHC 3v. The PCM mounts to the passenger-side kick panel area, similar to the way it is mounted in the 2003 Cobra. I agree. A custom set of Speedhut gauges including a GPS speedometer is used. Paul him self told me he used the factory 4.6l 3v PCM took awhile to tune right and spliced the 6.2l harness to the 4.6l harness. Speed density is still used by some aftermarket systems due to its ability to be tuned without having to change the mass air meter. I don't see why it would be endless headaches. But it may prove more challenging as Ford continues to improve its security systems. Along with the standard industry error codes, each manufacturer has some proprietary codes that are available to cover specific features of its vehicles. Get the body harness (the other 70 pin connector on the PCM) so you can cut that up to fit the crown vic. You can certainly purchase a programmer and work with tuning your vehicle, but there is a learning curve to becoming adept with tuners. MM sells them. Some tuner dealers dont like to deal with swaps because the owners generally dont tell the tuner everything they have done, or the swap builder makes a mistake with the wiring and blames the failure on the programmer. With the cancellation of the Panther platform (Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, and Lincoln Town Car) and Ford's movement to a predominantly V6 based lineup in their F-150's, the smooth and hardworking 4.6 liter V8 is almost extinct. JavaScript is disabled. existing tank, you need to reprogram the computer to tell the fuel pump circuit to maximize output all the time and run an old-style regulator and return line to the tank. As the air moves past the wire, it cools the wire and changes the resistance, and the computer can read the change. Ford F-100 Crown Vic Front Suspension Swap. When your computer sets an error code, it records exactly what was happening when the error occurred. Why even use the cam phaser lockout though? dedicated to the 2003+ Crown Vic swap in F100 specifically to the 53-56 but pre 53 and post 57 are welcome. WIth the mechanical work wrapped in the shop, Matt strapped her down to the rollers to get dialed in by Vlad via HP Tuners. Programmers were first told that PATS was hard-wired into the computer, but this turned out to be not true or they were able to get around it. You need to notify the tuner of any changes to items such as the intake, injectors, oxygen sensors, or any hardware that affects the performance of the car. 96 F150 5.0 Firing OrderFiring order 1996 ford f-150 5. For the later throttle-by-wire engines, Ford has developed a control pack that uses a stock-style Ford computer and a plug-and-play wiring harness that controls just the engine. Follow the recommendations in this chapter to select the best computer and wiring system for your engine. If you do this please post on here your progress. Trusty Crown Vic 2-Valve Mod Motor For the 2005 to 2009 Ford Mustang 3-Valve 4.6 V8 Modular Engine with manual transmission, they have you covered here as well. I haven't heard od a DOHC 5.4 being installed in a CV, probably because its too wide, but would a 3V 5.4 fit? Only car that came with more than two valves was the Marauder which had a 4v. Wiring diagrams for Ford can be purchased online at helminc. What this does is that it allows you to swap a 4.6 3V from a wrecking yard ($2K engine along o. preferred-parts1 (1,509) 99.4%. The results? The only other fitment issue was the IAC solenoid, which was mounted on top of the supercharger intake. PATS A Crown Victoria engine and a Mustang engine may have the same connector, but Ford changes the pinouts of the wires in the connector. Trying to put 3V heads on your 2V block sounds like a recipe for endless headaches. You would have to mess around with lots of things to make it work so it all comes down to how much is your time worth vs the end results. Ford may have multiple harnesses within a year and model that cannot be interchanged. For a nice primer on hopping-up Mod Motors from our sister publication EngineLabs, go here. The HPT Tuner Suite puts the power of a professional tuning shop on your home PC. The computer could also run checks on the sensors in Key On Engine Running (KOER) mode. This required a set of custom fabricated mounts to place the engine back far enough. Most MAF systems use sequential fuel injection, which means the fuel injectors are only firing once per cycle, making them more efficient than some speed density systems that fire every revolution (also called waste spark). The car has received a mini tub in the back and all four fenders have been flared 112 inches. A set of custom engine mounts was added to this MII crossover bar to move the engine back 4 inches to make room for the Eaton Supercharger. unfortunately im on workers comp waiting on my trial in October but I will have the car up and running before February next year. Ask 2004_p71, all he did was make the motor breathe and the it woke up. - '89 GT. Non-supercharged engines can mount over the front axle if desired. An example would be a two-stage fan relay module. Zlib compression enabled. And the same goes for the wiring; you may have to extend, trim, or tuck away wiring that doesnt quite fit. This wiring kit comes with all of the sensor connections pre-installed on color-coded and printed wire which attaches to the engine and transmission using the factory ECM. crown vic 3v swapcapricorn and virgo flirting. the 6.2l uses different sensors for the crank and cam pick-ups then what the 4.6l 2v uses. Electronic speed control is tucked under the driver-side splash shield. The computer recorded all the data of the vehicle at the time of the error, including his test drive speed. The knock sensor will pull a [censored] load of timing before that happens. (something different) i have welded my rear doors shut and i shaved the rear door handles, the car looks realy good it has a real nice lean look and the stance with factory suspension looks fantastic. but i have a few issues. If you want to use only the engine, an aftermarket computer may be your best option. I figured with the valves being in different locations it would affect that but Ive never build a mod motor myself. The QA1 F-100 kit is designed for this exact truck. Some systems computers can be reprogrammed via the Internet through built in Wi-Fi or through a laptop. Anything that can affect what the computer thinks it is seeing needs to be addressed. About this group. The basic code reader can read error codes stored in the computer. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Regular price $220 View. or some sort of power adder. This is probably too pie in the sky to be practical, but what would it take to put a 3V engine in a Panther, assuming you locked out the cam phasers to disable the VVT system? :dumb: I resisted the urge to go "what the f would you want to do this for? looks really good. Yes it will breathe more than a 2v but you're taking away all the adjustability of the performance, so whats the point? This one is tucked up under the dash of a 1952 truck. I really wanted to do the swap in an sn95 because a full bolt on 3v in the lighter sn95 chassis with a good suspension would be a nice strip car. instead of doing the 3valve computer deal, I will just have the factory 4.6l 2v engine harness swapped to my 6.2l and use all the sensors the 4.6l uses and have the factory computer tuned to my engine. Through the scanner you can turn on the low and high fan outputs on the Ford system before you fire up your engine and know you will have the cooling fans on first start. As the cars became more complex, Ford needed new ways to bring circuits together. Using Ford factory wiring harnesses is an option for most engines and projects. A remote oil filter mount and oil-to-air cooler are also used. About | Contact | Terms | Privacy, Unless you will be using the stock pump and controller in your. These cars never came with a 3v. He had some explaining to do.). Zlib compression enabled. You need to program around the PATS system, something most aftermarket companies say they can do (but check with your tuner). Thanks to Chevyguy who reviled me that Ford Racing has a Control Pack that allows easy installation of a 4.6 3V (300hp stock or 350hp with cams) engine into a vehicle with a manual transmission. i called around asking about what computer i should use, i have been told to use the FRPP 3.V kit for the 6.2 in my crown vic and have it calibrated for my engine, the heads will be stock no cnc work. I know this is for trucks but I would really like to see how this turns out. If you cant get the entire donor car, try to get as much as you can: computer, all the wiring harnesses, throttle pedal (if using throttle-by-wire), fuel pumps, and controllers. Strong engine, but you may have a struggle getting the torqshift to work properly. They have horsepower, can make more horsepower very easily, are not as complicated as a newer throttle-by-wire engine, and look fantastic under the hood. A second oval grommet from a salvage yard harness seals the harness as it passes through the firewall. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. According to the wiring gurus, Were proud to introduce a complete fuel injection wiring system for 2005 to 2006 and 2007-2011 Ford Crown Victoria 4.6-liter engines. This EEC-V is from a 2003 Mustang Cobra, and it features an additional row of pins and the different keying from the EEC-IV unit. (Photo Courtesy Ford Performance Parts). MASSIVE issues to get that to work in a non OEM install. Come join the discussion about performance, racing, builds, modifications, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! With the exception of being able to erase codes, this is pretty much one-way communication, but it is still beneficial. Say I got my hands on a 4.6 3v and wanted to drop in my 2009 P71 Crown Vic. The EEC-IV computer module is easily identified by its three rows of pins on the main plug. All Ford modular engines came with Mass Airflow (MAF) computer systems for control. VCT and the improved PATS system make using the factory wiring more difficult in most cases. To fit it in the truck we got a front frame clip from a wrecked crown Vic police car with heavy duty suspension.and attached it to the original chassis and boxed original frame and 9 inch rear end. This plug connects to the Ford communications network and to the PCM. SVT FOX thinks I have a mustang with a 6.2l in it. Ive honestly always thought the same thing. I believe it's a 7mm socket scree head and unplug it and pull it out. As regulations and features are added to new vehicles, its computers will be replaced with greater frequency. A forum community dedicated to Mustang and Ford Performance owners and enthusiasts. The reason I ask is because I was reading a debat in another thread where the 5.4 makes more torque, due to its bigger displacement, but not necesarily more horsepower. 02 Gt Oxford White, 07 Gt Tungsten Grey, 17 Gt Black, 87 Mercury Grand Marquis, 09 P71 Black. (A friend test drove a newer Mustang GT and while he was cruising at 95 mph and backup system threw a minor code. Im looking to do the same setup with a 6.2 in a crown vic..Now A question. The 6.2 F-150 Raptor and truck engine uses SOHC heads on the taller block. New Daily 2016 Dodge Charger R/T Road and track, purchase with 16K now 23K after 3 months. The 5.4 3v is almost as wide as the 4v. OBDII rules dictate a standard set of PIDs that all scan tools can read; Ford has some proprietary ones that may or may not be readable by non-Ford scan tools. While many industry names have been used to describe the computer that controls the engine, Ford refers to its system as the Powertrain Control Module or PCM. Buying every sensor or component from Ford can be very expensive. If it's a 3 valve it will be straight. The engine bay needs to be modified to make room for the bigger engine. Oh ok good to know, thats a route I might go if my motor blows up lol or just go with a 3v swap with the 3v ecu and everything. As more gadgets continued to consume computer resources, the computer needed to evolve. You can choose between an aftermarket or the factory system that originally came with your engine.