Thats pretty much what youd expect from a V-MAX. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. The SIG MCX in a discrete platform featuring a thin, durable folding stock and a 5.5" barrel with PDW upper. As a PDW cartridge, the .223/5.56, unlike the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, is grossly inefficient. On the M400, there is an extension that adds surface area in an L-shape, making it much easier to operate. Profits before the 2A. When it comes to affordability, most figured Palmetto State Armory was going to show up sooner or later on this list. The result was sub-MOA groups (less than 1 inch center to center) from two of the five test ammunitions, including our lightest bullet and our heaviest. The CMMGs single-finger-groove plastic grip is almost extinct because the divider can be uncomfortable and never really seems to be in the right place. For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Even though the Victor has a 9-inch barrel (1:7 twist), the last feature is a nice piece of mind. I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. You have entered an incorrect email address! It's The only Sig I have left I won't give up because I like it that much . It's an entry level rifle that's pretty much designed to sell accessories. The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. Working the Saint trigger differed from that of the SIG Sauer. MSRP: $2,720; sigsauer.com. That said, neither of the suppressors was really quiet. During our action tests, we found the fixed front sight a little distracting, even though we had it aligned (co-witnessed) with our Romeo4 red-dot sight. You are using an out of date browser. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle thats easy to conceal. Save my name and email to use for future comments. Like the MPX, the MCX uses a short-stroke gas piston system, which does away with the need for a buffer system, and the weapon can use a folding stock or no stock at all. To find out if any of the above added up to improved performance, we tested for accuracy from the 100-yard line at American Shooting Centers in Houston. If I did buy another SIG rifle it would be the 716 to replace my Victor .308 (most know my issues with this gun). Awesome pistol by the way. At the rear of the receiver, youll see the Maxim Defense SCW brace. SAINT VICTOR PIST 300BLK 30+1. Any ways I just bought the Springfield Saint Victor in .308 . Im knocking quite a few off my backlist to be sure. These guns eventually faded awaypartially because of their ammunition and because it was easier to use a variant of the M4 Carbinebut the need did not. The new rifle is built on an aluminum billet chassis with carbon-fiber forend and cheek riser featuring V-block bedding. I usually have to take break between mags. One new winner* is announced every week! Ben Voss FN Product Manager talks about the new FN SCAR 15P ultra-compact rifle-caliber pistol at SHOT Show 2023. However, on the PDW, the Reptilia grip and the provided 20-round magazines look perfect. (Notice they fixed this on the new Edge pistol with a longer barrel.) I really appreciate the input. PDW stands for personal defense weapon. It is not a term that Springfield Armory invented. I would go with the sig. The art of shooting groups from support is about being patient. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308, https://www.surplusammo.com/categori-308-mags.html, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the, Welcome to the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Forum, we hope you like what you find here and we strongly encourage you to. The bottom line? Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. This is a 100-yard rifle. They are dead to me. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and looked better and had better brace . Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. Bought separately, the SCW (with this H3 buffer) retails for $590. Spring loaded at rest, there was a platform on each side that released the sight instantaneously to its vertical position. PDWs are an established, in-between class of firearm. Lets see if our money was well spent. Youll probably need hearing protection with sub- and supersonic ammo. Its also rated for rounds up to the .300 Winchester Magnum, so it wont have issues with higher-pressure 300 Blackout loads. The ambidextrous controls worked quite well, and the safety lever on the off hand did not interfere with the shooter, be he right-handed or left-handed. Its truly impressive. Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. The only difference are the built in QD mounts to any other lower. For sling attachment there was a fixed steel sling loop at the heel of the butt plate, or you could utilize the slot that ran parallel to the buffer tube beneath the cheek piece. Yes, we would have preferred a flat-top gas block with rail for attaching a folding front sight, and were not exactly sure how to connect a sling to the front end without pulling on the barrel, but were not sure there is much else wrong. However, the company Match Duo, with a 5.5 break, does a much better job of getting the most out of the pistol. I fired the Rattler off-hand from 10 and 15 yards with the earlier test loads and a few others, including Winchesters 150-grain Deer Season XP ammunition and Noslers 220-grain BTs. We think mounting accessories in the arc between the top rail and the sides shows a lot of promise for easy control. The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. No. The Saint is one of the most user-friendly versions of this user-friendly platform. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . Thanks Bio. To carry the Rattler discreetly, I used Eberlestocks Combat Office Brief, which represents a typical messenger bag, as well as several other covert packs in my inventory, including some camera bags. It will likely go through a threat up close (given no contact with bone), but most of its work is done before exiting. I really like the trigger in the Saint but the 716i has really good features too. So these two were on my list . That never occurred with the Dead Air Sandman-K, but the Rattler never missed a beat with either and ejected every case as fast as could I pull the trigger. One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly. Though, the pistol is a 1:8 twist rate affair. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. But its really a 100-yard rifle with supersonic ammunition. I said you really loved shooting the orange . With the brace collapsed, it is just 18.75 inches long. Minuteman. The Rattler has a one in five twist rate. So me and the wife was going to the local gun shop so I could buy my Springfield Hellcat RDP , While I was doing my paper work the wife was looking around and was checking out some hand guns she was looking at the CZ's They had the Shadow 2 orange in 9mm $1,900 . Ive also thought the same thing about 20-round magazines in a full-size AR. We also liked the bead-blast finish on the barrel. Now we've got Springfield's PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. Pushing the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM rounds to an average velocity of 2440 fps, the SIG Sauer ammunition, marked Match Grade Rifle, was still nevertheless well below the 2750 fps printed on the box. (Most folks will never see such high velocities out of the 5.5 inch barrel.) Matte Black. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. All three-rifle barrels were marked 5.56 NATO. I just started a new thread under Sig Rifles to cover Vrtus Patrol. Concerning these small-but-potent arms, they're pretty dang slick in 5.56 NATO, but sing when chambered 300 Blackout. For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). Just Got this in my e-mail . Ah, the AR-pistol. What more can you ask for? The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. The Eberlestock bag worked well with the gun sporting a suppressor and fully loaded, and removing the can and ammunition would allow the Rattler to slide into a small laptop case. On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. Interestingly, Sig is one of the gunmakers that subscribe to faster-than-usual twist rates for 300 Blackout1:5. JavaScript is disabled. But in spite of all that, I find myself wanting one, a lot. Anything beyond 100 yards and that starts to fade. Springfield incorporates some nice accessories from Reptilia Corp. like the CQG pistol grip, which has a more vertical angle than the standard AR grip. Magazine release from the left side was a little easier if pressure was applied more toward the rearward edge than over the center of the button. Looking past the outdated grip and buttstock, this is a very good rifle that deserved a much better trigger. A PDW is not a rifle. Saw that email pop up today. I realize in the current climate you may have to take what you can get. That said, and this being Wilson, dont expect some off-the-rack experience with the gun. The AR pistol is a platform of many uses. The other rifles did not suffer this complaint. The barrel is 16 inches and features a 1:8 twist. We also tested with 77-grain OTM 223 Remington rounds manufactured by SIG Sauer. Compared to most everything else on the market, the 10.5-inch barrel (1:7 twist) pistol is an absolute Cadillac. I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. The heavier 120- to 125-grain loads performed similarly. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). I plan on using it primarily for hunting and some plinking. If the Mk4T had either of the triggers found on the SIG Sauer or Springfield Armory carbines, it might have been the accuracy champ of this test. When not at his press or the range he can be found chasing mule deer around the Rocky Mountains. I bought a Tread on a whim. Now weve got Springfields PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. Whereas the SIG Sauer presented direct pressure against a solid object, the Saints trigger offered a subtle compression before reaching its breaking point. The barrel is only 5.5 inches longsomething unthinkable with a direct-impingement AR. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! As to the brace, its a Tailhook Mod 2, an adjustable model that does an excellent job of settling in the gun. I'm curious what kind of accuracy you are going to see out of that thing. Working the charging handle was smooth and revealed no linear movement. I will not consider another firearm from the Saint line ever again. JavaScript is disabled. Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. Cookie Notice Two additional components from Bravo Company contributed to the Saints distinctive lines. But like you, I also bought the SA Saint Victor 300 BLK pistol, which is very well made. Love this gun . Putting it into action required lifting it from its horizontal position. Wilson Combat SFX9 5-Inch Solid Frame 9mm Pistol: First Look. The M-Lok handguard gives you the ability to attach . The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. FIRST LOOK: Sig Sauer MCX Rattler, the Worlds Smallest Rifle. SIG MCX Rattler For Sale SIG Rattler and SIG MCX Rattler 5.56/300Blk Pistols For Sale Online All new SIG MCX Rattler Pistols are now available in 5.56 and 300 Blackout calibers. Barrels with twist rates of 1:8 inches and even 1:7 inches have replaced the original-issue lands and grooves that spun the bullets at a rate of 1:9. Both rifles have a similar price, $809 for the Saint with discount code and $799 for the Tread. At first glance, I thought the PDW was ridiculous in both appearance and performance. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. As far as stabilization, it features the fairly standard SB Tactical SBA3 brace. We think this made the trigger a little more user friendly in that there seemed to be more time for the shooter to completely refine a shot. I just wish the right-side lever was shorter so it wouldnt bump my trigger finger when flipping it off. Rather, the AR-15 is an ideal defensive weapon necessary for the legally armed defense-conscious American. For more information, please see our I am reminded that short barrels are inherently more accurate as there is less flexing during the recoil cycle. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Gun Tests has been independently reviewing firearms since 1989. Why pay more? After all, the eminently suppressible, hard-hitting .30-caliber was tailored for such gunscarbine and smaller that is. For targeting, I installed a set of Daniel Defenses fixed sights, as well as a Sig Sauer ROMEO3 reflex sight in a tall mount for co-witnessing. I wanted to see if the bullets would expand at close range given their lower velocities. The gas block is pinned in place. and our Springfield currently doesnt have any plans for a version in .300 AAC Blackout, but (hint hint) it would be a very smart move, as the .300 BLK performs much better out of short barrels than the 5.56. Chris Johnson, FN Senior Product Manager, walks us through two new FN striker-fired pistols at SHOT Show 2023: the FN 510 Tactical, chambered in 10mm Auto, and the FN 545 Tactical, chambered in .45 ACP. Type: Semi-Auto Pistol. The 2nd pic is from the Sig website.. SIG Sauer has just introduced their latest offering in their tread series of rifles with the introduction of the SIG TREAD Snakebite SE. Sig Sauer may have the answer in the MCX Rattler PCB! Joe Kurtenbach and Caleb Giddings also look at the first-ever optics-ready carry revolvers with the new Taurus 605 and 856 T.O.R.O. Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec. I have not shot the Tread, I have handled and inspected it though. Aristotle who said Republics devolve into democracies and devolve into despotism.. Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. I installed it on an AR carbine but ended up taking it off, because while it felt good in my hand, it just didnt look right to my eye. General guidelines dictate a 1:7 twist rate (there are also the odd 1:5 examples) for subsonic 300 Blackout and a 1:8 or slower for supersonic. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. A Magpul dual split aperture flip-up rear sight was attached to the top rail that ran the length of the receiver. But I will check out Sig's new Tread SE to see if I like it Yeah. Its solid visual form led us to refer to it as a forend rather than a handguard. I have builds from BCM, Springfield, Noveske and PSA. I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. Pretty standard, yes, but the 5.56 rendition comes with Springfields forward blast diverter. To test this, I fed the PDW Black Hills 77-grain TMK load in addition to more traditional offerings. Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. And when the special operations community began searching for a new 300 Blackout PDW, Sig Sauer provided a solution with the SIG MCX Rattler. (Tie) LWRC Smg-45 ($3k?fuck!) To this end, the Protector boasts Wilsons excellent M2 two-state TTU trigger, factory set to between 4.5 to 5 pounds. Honestly, theres not a ton to ballyhoo on the pistol other than it runs, dependably so. models. As such, the challenge for Springfield Armory was to offer an AR-15 that distinguished itself from the competition and was affordably priced. 4. I would really like to hear from you guys who have had access and range time with these MSR's. Caleb Giddings, Marketing Manager at Taurus, introduces the all-new TaurusTX 22 Compact. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD, Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16". At that time the price on that gun was $1,800. It has a pretty decent barrel and is reliable, so I can recommend it as a solid choice. The aluminum hanguard is 6 inches long and has M-LOK attachment slots. check out the. One last more subtle upgrade was the trigger guard from Bravo Company that left more room for a gloved finger without necessarily having to unlatch the bottom panel. I have a lot of love for my BCM because it was my first full build but the Saint is a great rifle off the shelf. SIG MCX Rattler SBR . Compare. Measuring Performance A PDW is not a rifle. I really liked the Blue TS2 ,so in the end she was getting one for me for a surprise for my birthday . One thing I would like to point out that seemingly even many owners of the Maxim Defense SCW and larger CQB braces and stocks dont seem to know is that you only have to use the button to collapse it. This website contains many older reviews. Please give me your thoughts and opinions! Sig offers several variants, including pistols with stabilizing braces. One answer would be to take advantage of the latest technology in terms of manufacturing, helpful features and improved ammunition. When you authored this on 24 March 2020, SIG announced the 716I Tread for civilian sale which is the same rifle minus select fire, 1913 rails on the handguards 6', and an M-Lok Bayonet lug. Using the Lehigh Defense ammunition, its a 50-yard rifle. April 23, 2020 By Sean Utley While there are many good suppressors available, in my experience there are a few notable brands and models which, from a durability/longevity standpoint, I would consider first when looking to purchase a suppressor. Anything under 10.5" and not only do you run the risk of a strike but you are also going to get a ton of unburnt powder trashing the inside of the can. . PDWs in the modern era see most use with government security details where large rifles are not needed. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . The gun is boringly reliable and is sized to be a near-constant companionat least anywhere youll tote a rucksack. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . In these times, what you want and what is available are two very different things. SIG Sauer Introduces the New SIG Tread Snakebite SE. The trigger presented a crisp break at about 7.6 pounds of resistance with barely an ounce or two in variation from shot to shot. New Shooters Guide: What Is a Pistol Caliber Carbine? For example, Ive seen U.S. Department of State Diplomatic Security Service special agents wielding them in the field when guarding high-value targets. So after that day it was on my dream list . With the Saint Edge series of ARs, you get nicely sculpted lower receivers machined from billet aluminum. Logical on the surface, given faster twist rates are generally required for heavier bullets, but there is debate on the matter. A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. The top rail was not really functional as a connection point, but it provided venting. Compare specifications of Sig Sauer SIGMCX Rattler 300 AAC Blackout PMCX-300B-5B-TAP-PSB and Springfield Saint Victor Pistol 300 AAC Blackout STV909300B. The BCM Gunfighter grip provided a steeper angle than the others, including the Magpul grip found on the M400. Short and sweet, the 5.5-inch barreled MCX Rattler is as compact as 300 Blackout pistols come. The second can was the Dead Air Sandman-K, which is slightly heavier at 12.8 ounces yet only 0.7 inches longer. Two of the loads were subsonic; Sigs 220-grain OTMs clustered into 0.7 inches while Lehigh Defenses 194-grain Maximum Expansion (ME) rounds created a 1-inch group. All content is 2006-2015 Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. Would I want to get shot with it at 200 yards? Neither rifle is "top tier," so to speak. Dependent on load, firearm and environment, expect anywhere from a 250 fps to 350 fps difference between the lengths. The SIG Rattler is something special. The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. Target-left was placed 5 yards downrange, target-right 7 yards downrange, and the center target 10 yards downrange. I'm looking for advice on whether to buy a Sig Sauer MCX or the Springfield Armory Saint (new free float version). Compare. Springfield provides a hand stop to keep your fingers from straying in front of the muzzle, but it is somewhat reduced in size. Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). In measuring trigger-pull weight, we arrived at an average of about 7.2 pounds. This five-position brace was specifically designed for PDW-sized guns and only hangs 4 inches off the back of the receiver when fully collapsed. I have a sig elite which is similar to the tread, no issues solid rifle. By 5george31 in forum Rifles Replies: 92 Last Post: November 3rd, 2016, 05:28 AM. The 300 Blackout pistol model is no different, but few shooters miss the bells and whistles with a gun that goes bang with every trigger pull and hits the mark. Coming in at 5.1 pounds empty, sporting a 5.5-inch barrel and folded length of 17 inches, the MCX Rattler is definitely compact enough to be carried anywhere. The $1000 CMMG Mk4T may still use the M1 buttstock and grip, but the 416 stainless-steel barrel offered a 1:7 twist on the inside and a bead-blast finish on the outside. The first and third pics are the rifle I examined, but the second isn't. The top tier AR-15 rifle offered incredible performance at a very reasonable price. In the same breath, the gun is compact enough to enhance its nimbleness, yet big enough to ensure the cartridges ballistic integrity. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and . Runs great. The issue is, get it wrong, send a bullet yawling at the muzzle and youre contending with endcap and baffle strikes in your suppressor. Springfield Armory's $899 Saint, the manufacturer's first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle that's easy to conceal. Sig's new SnakeBite . [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? Build a gun that works and, by gum, the world will beat a path to your door. Life has a melody. Another design goal was optimized sound suppressor use, so sub- and supersonic 300 Blackout loads were developed. But we loved the buttpad and the overall contour of the stock. 300 AAC Blackout. I've handled a Saint, and I would definitely go with the Sig. As was the case with the M400 Classic, the front sight was not visible with the Tango4 optical scope mounted. Elwood Shelton is an online content developer for Gun Digest. I'm like seriously I could of got the checkmate . Wed prefer a free-float sling attachment, but the Saint is handsome and well made at a good price. This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. Subscriber Services. Jones .300 Whisper wildcat cartridge and developed the SAAMI-standardized 300 Blackout. As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. They are going to err on the side of caution by telling you they are incompatible but in this situation they are right. Keeping all the shots inside the A-zone was important, but for our purposes we wanted to know what characteristics were helping or hindering the shooter. But After getting hooked on the Springfield Saint line I lost interest in the Sig , I feel bad. They said nothing as short as the rattler. and the had the CZ Parrot checkmate 9mm $3,299. To change the shooters perspective and in effect reduce target area, we staggered the targets. In addition to all that, for the features you get on this pistol, it is priced very reasonably. Operating the trigger in a controlled press, the trigger seemed to find two stopping points before finally breaking a shot. At 1,900 fps, youll still get a good permanent wound cavity, some temporary cavity and the ability to defeat armor in most cases. The idea was to replace 9mm submachine guns for support troops and special operations units with something more powerful that wasnt a full-sized, Tactical Life Gun Magazine: Gun news, gun reviews and gun magazines for gun enthusiasts, military and law enforcement, You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our, ENTER TO WIN > Free Gun Friday for your chance to WIN the SIG Sauer P320 AXG Legion and Black Hills HoneyBadger Ammo, Anderson Manufacturing Kiger-9c Pro: Upgrades and EDC Ready, Stow it and Go: The Volquartsen 22 LR VT2 Takedown Rifle.