The problem with not being an expert is that you don't know what is important and what's not. This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. MB has specfic test parameters for performance, but you can always test at max load - doors open fan on highest speed.The oil overcharge looks like a parabolic curve. Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. is good, then I should be looking elsewhere? Autor de l'entrada Per ; Data de l'entrada calexico west port of entry hours; 12 month libor rate 2021 a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. PDF R134a R513A - Tecumseh Products Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. Carefully study the chart and compare the following: To a large extent, the choice is up to you. It is possible I have 10 ounces (250 ml) in the system. Different correction factors are applied to other refrigerants. Moreso, it had been banned. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. You may need to adjust the valve in a bit to get desired superheat. Gain access to our free AOP (Ask a Professional) Section to get real answers for your questions. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. Additionally, R134a was introduced as a replacement for R22 and R12 in high and medium-temperature refrigeration systems like domestic and commercial chillers. Thomas Jefferson, Thanks,OK, I'm starting to feel a little better about it. System has been working fine for a year. Typically 5 to 6 ounces of a/c oil is adequate but this may vary depending upon the car. What is a good differential? The money you will save by will pay for the R12. Blows pretty hard on full. Before landing on the debate of R134 vs R12 you should know that both R134a and R12 are AC refrigerants types used in refrigeration and air conditioning systems. The difference really shows up on the high side. How to Convert R12 to R22 | eHow I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. american sniper longest shot; how to adjust sunsetter awning arms; pastor jeremy roberts texas. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. R-134a is widely believed to be the most acceptable R12 substitute. Just because the radiator does not boil people assume that the cooling system is ok. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! The adjusted tension of this spring is the determining factor in the opening and closing of the expansion valve. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. That is a good thing. Production of R12 ceased in 1996, although it can still be reclaimed, purified, and resold, and small cans of New Old Stock R12 are still widely available on eBay and Craigslist. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Therefore, its most suitable for both commercial and domestic environments. I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. They plug all the time. Expansion Valve Differences R12 vs R134 - Automotive Air Conditioning I don't recall all the details, but starts off with the largest parallel flow condenser and improved fans. Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). R12 to 134A conversion. | Allpar Forums The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. Thanks for the input. With that said, I would source the TXV from another source such as NAPA just to avoid any problems. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. The flammables have hydrocarbons. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. I have a laser temp reader, and it says the temps going into the condensor are up to 160F - coming out it is always around 110 or so. It would make a big difference at idle ,in traffic!! Use a drop light in the engine bay, and check the air path from the front of the car at night. There are R134a specific valves that operate at a slightly different pressure, but not for any "old" automotive application that I'm aware of. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. Is there a difference in the expansion valve for R12 as opposed to R-134a? Bookmarks: Digg; del . Pound for pound R134a is a more efficient refrigerant than R12, however it runs at higher pressures in some aspects and therefore requires more effective condensing. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. Why wait for 200f on the engine coolant to start the fan? The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. Maybe a jerky locker.I cleaned the condensor with the off the shelf ac cleaner stuff from Home Depot that I used on my home evaporator. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. $21 . Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. However, R134a is better than R12. A York oil capacity is listed as "6.5 to 9.6 ounces". R-12 expansion valves can be re-used, but will not be as efficient as R-134a specific ones because of the slightly different pressure specs of R-12 vs. R-134a. don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. Can I Use Automotive r134a in a Refrigerator | An Expert Guide The smoking question & vent airflow indicate that the evaporator is fairly clean - and you are aware of the importance of that.The heater valve stops the flow, but there is always some conduction heating. R134a requires a different oil. There is a lot of differences between the R12 and the R134a fittings, you can't mistake them. The exact amount will vary with each car. 4 Stars & Up & Up; 3 Stars & Up & Up; 2 Stars & Up . Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. Like say half a can or so recharge come springtime warm weather or something. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. By: james smith underoath; Comments: 0 . Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". Nice to use new gadgets! ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. 4) Inconsistent Airflow. R134a requires the use of synthetic oil! Then again, there are two different expansion valves. I have the original (R12) style expansion valve in the Maverick AC system. I would suggest you do stay away from R-134a since with the hot gas bypass of your system (if it is to be just as the original) extremes of temperature and pressure will be very hard on your compressor and the rest of the system. Poc temps desprs van decidir unir els dos webs sota el nom de Xarxa Catal, el conjunt de pgines que oferirien de franc sries doblades i/o subtitulades en catal. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. . I'll put the relay on for that. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve As noted, measure up front as best as you can to get as close to the aftermarket dim. Are you sure you have an R4? There are other refrigerants: some of which may work, some of which dont work, some of which will destroy your a/c system and some of which are dangerous. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. R134a Expansion valve different from R12? - Automotive Air Conditioning ThanksPaul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. I've got a ball valve I'm going to put in the coolant line before the coolant goes through the firewall to the core. look at the difference! It cycles on off in med (or low for that matter)Gotta tell ya. You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. Since 2010, all home AC systems manufactured use a refrigerant like R134a that has zero ozone depletion potential (ODP). Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. Until 1995, most cars with air conditioning used R-12 Freon refrigerant which has shown to have an environmental impact. Edited: Sat July 14, 2007 at 10:22 PM by fonebone. Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: Chemistry The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. But R22 is almost equally damaging. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. Big . How thermostatic expansion valves work | Danfoss ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. With R-12, 30 is 28.4psi and 40 is 36.9psi, for a difference of 8.5psi. I bought a relay to put on it connected to the compressor clutch. Be sure to test @ 1500 to 2000 engine rpm, and record the ambient temp as well. Also, they are mostly used in refrigeration and automotive air conditioning systems. Some cars have both an engine coolant temp switch & a refrigerant temp switch, others only the refrigerant switch. So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc. Rxmechanic.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. . Read on for more information about using automotive r134a in a refrigerator and vice versa. Though - the valve for a 1991 says R12 on it, and for a 1994, it says R-134a. Large temperature difference between expansion valve inlet and outlet oReplace expansion valve Air . It won't be optimal, though.On some/many valves, you can adjust them, but that might make matters worse unless you really know what you're doing (which I don't!).RegardsGeorge. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valvewarning signs for a deteriorating patient with covid 19 infection 2022.07.03 18:36 18:36 Interestingly, theres one oil type that works perfectly with both types of refrigerants. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. The AC usually does not work at all. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in . I recommend replacing the expansion valve when you do the swap. In this study, without the need for major modifications to the bus air conditioner, the variation of the ejector dimensions according to different parameters has been investigated in the case of using the R1234yf, R1234ze(E), or R600a refrigerants, which may be a substitute for R134a as a refrigerant due to . It slowly gets warmer and warmer in the car, even at highway speeds. Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. asia pacific stevie awards 2021. gin, amaretto cocktail. Just leave it alone for now. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. I found that in the..Maxposition on the control it will have the compressor running all the time. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. 4) Repeat step 2, making sure it will fit. The oil used in R12 and R134a are different and not compatible. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. If the charge is low the compressor will cycle on/off in the max AC position. Paul:It is never a waste of my time to chat with someone that understands the problem, and wants to fix it. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . Hope this helps. If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Also called the orifice tube. How dumb!I will jumper the aux fan and redo the test. R-12 vs R-134a Hose - Pelican Parts Forums Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? There is only a temperature switch on these cars as far as I recall, and it just switches on the aux fan. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. Your average garage that works on a/c on the side probably would not have this. Please enter a valid email address for yourself. . ing the expansion valve, a maximum opening superheat of 7F, and a standard factory air test superheat setting. It will work and there will be very little, in any difference in performance.As Chick stated, the difference is only the gas used in the sensor tube. El juny de 2017, el mateix grup va decidir crear un web deDoctor Who amb el mateix objectiu. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. Accessories Pumps, Cooling Towers, Evap Condensers, etc, Components Valves, Motors, Condensers, Evaporators, etc, Duct Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Piping Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Control System Design, Installation & Practice, Pro's Forum: National Electrical Code (NEC), Pro's Forum: Calculations & Electrical Theory, Pro's Forum: Electrical Business & Marketing. As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. 05-25-2017 02:14 AM. Add to cart. For example, at an evap temp of 30 (your daughter's system is probably running around 25-28 saturated in order to give a 32 duct temp), the pressure of R-134a is 26.1psi. Dimensioning of refrigeration components - part 2 - Danfoss GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. Very nice! Safe but sorry! It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues. Get to the point where I can walk without crutches2. . R-134a XV for R-134a use. I have some experience with auto a/c but not too much. With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. Only show this user. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? An orifice tube is just a fixed nozzle that pisses refrigerant into the evaporator without any sort of feedback. Whether R134a performs as well as R12 in any given a/c system depends upon system components and the amount of R134a used. He started writing automotive articles to share his garage experience with car enthusiasts and armature mechanics. sparkee said: Thanks for the Service Bulletin. It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. I'm not sure. With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. That's a lot isn't it? The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums. Answer: OK, I'll bite. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. Just had knee surgery yesterday, so I"M not exactly hopping around too well. Statisicaly your friend was lucky. Heres some important advice Whenever you notice your R12 refrigerant is leaking, turn off all flames and open the doors so it can escape to the open atmosphere. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues.You could improve the cooling capacity by replacing the condensor with a high effeciency parallel flow unit. I had to vaccum the system for 2 hours and recharge 4 oz of PAG oil plus 36 oz of 134A freon (3 cans). It was later found that R-134a had a very high Global Warming Potential, or GWP, number. The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. Before R12 was replaced with R134a in 1995, it was mostly used in trucks and cars. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? . You do not need to replace every o-ring in the system, but if you happen to open a connection that has an o-ring you should replace the old o-ring with one that is compatible with R134a and lubricate the o-ring with ac oil. The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. The condensor airflow drops off as the fan clutch dies slowly. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. This is a great space to write long text about your company and your services. Expansion Valve for R134a? | Team Chevelle When the ambient air temps get above 80F the gauge readings can run a bit higher on the high side and lower on the low side when using R134a. You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant.
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